Paul, I AGAPE LOVE you as a brother in JESUS. I understand your views; & parts of the WORD that has been taught since the Church formation.
Have you ever considered the Brave, Courageous, women, who Risked Death, in both Old & New Covenants ?
Debra, from the Old Covenant, as well as Lydia & Phoebe (with Paul's approval) in the New Covenant are prime examples of leadership; both in Jewish & Christian Biblical truths leading their flocks. And there are many more; including those who were ex-prostitutes as Rahab in the Old & Mary Madeleine in the New.
The call for Leadership is demanding & intense. Not all can do so; including most males. Yet, we can not discount the leadership roles of women in the past both Old & New; & today, as well as the future before JESUS returns.
Nevertheless, it behooves those elders, whomever they may be, to seriously validate any & all people chosen to lead in the ministry of JESUS. Their failures have affected & infected the Church. JESUS called all of us to use discernment, AGAPE LOVE others, including those who persecute us. Yet, we need to speak gently & softly to correct those in error; and discuss what the WORD truly says.
I am praying for you & your mom daily; & hope you consider & pray on this with more reading of the WORD.
I have listed, in my Substack, where in the WORD one can find out about these Women who demonstrated Bravery, Courage, & Risked Death for ELOHIM.
Women serving God and laying down their life for Him doesn't equal leadership.
Everyone has a call to preach the Gospel. Everyone must be prepared to give their lives for Jesus. That's part of being a Christian, no matter if you're a man or woman, old or young.
However the bible clearly prohibits women from leadership in the NT.
And there are no examples of female leadership in the NT.
Phoebe was a servant and succourer (not a leader), and I'm not sure how you can conclude that Lydia and Mary (and Rahab) were spiritual leaders, because that's clearly not mentioned in the bible.
The only example in the Bible of female leadership, is Deborah who lived under the old covenant. Christians live under the new covenant, and follow what God commands us in the NT. In the old covenant, men were allowed multiple wives, divorce etc. And there was no law prohibiting a woman from leadership then. However even then we only have one example in the entire OT, where a woman was a leader. And from the context, we can see that this was an exception, probably as a judgement over the men of Israel, that they were so weak because of their wickedness that a woman had to take command. Barak even refused to go to war without Deborah. Yet in the NT in Heb 11, Barak is mentioned instead of Deborah - for a reason as women aren't supposed to be leaders.
So we cannot use an exception in the old testament to justify ignoring what the bible very clearly teaches in 1Tim 2:12
1Tim 2:12: "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to
Lydia is not presented in Acts as a prime example of leadership, leading her flock in Christian biblical truth.
Neither is Phebe presented as a leader of her flock. It says of her that she had been a succourer, a helper of many.
There are many valuable ways of helping people in the church that do not involve teaching and authority.
Dorcas in the book of Acts was praised for all of the many garments she had made - a valuable and necessary ministry, when you could not run down to K-Mart and buy a shirt made in China.
Phebe may have done great work with orphans or the sick or the poor, or providing food and lodging for travelling saints.
About Deborah, the same chapter of Judges that shows Barak's victory over the Canaanites also shows Jael assassinating Sisera while he slept in her tent. Jael is praised for that, yet New Testament Christians would not use that as justification for killing the enemies of Christ.
As for other women in the Bible who were brave and risked death for God, nowhere do we read that they represented modern doctrines of role reversal and unisex, or that they thought they were the same as men.
Sarah is praised in Hebrews for her faith in God which gave her strength to conceive seed.
Barak is mentioned in Hebrews 11:32 but Deborah is not. That cannot have been an accidental oversight. It means we are not to glorify Deborah too much. And Barak was not under her command but set the terms on which he would cooperate with her (Judges 4:8).
Rahab, also in Hebrews 11, concealed some spies, because she had faith to know of Israel's coming victory.
Other women "received their dead raised to life again" - this shows great faith in God, not teaching authority.
We read in Exodus 15:20 that the prophetess Miriam led the women in praising God's destruction of the Egyptians.
I love this! I think the most we can learn about how God uses women is how He shows us with all the beautiful stories of their courage and bravery in His Word!
Wow! I thought Scandinavia was all but lost on this! Paul, that was so good to read because you just quoted the Word of God that stands forever. Mt 24:34, "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away." We have a problem with people trying to soften the literal teachings of the Bible and making the metaphorical--literal. This is the way Satan has it. Feminism in the world and the church has destroyed both! We are removed from God's blessing and unity because of this. No man wants to sit under a female boss or a female preacher. It feels unnatural; but most of all it is rebellion to God. Just as Eve was taken from under her headship of the man, so has the church been taken from under the headship of Christ and His Word. Wow! Paul you went up even further, if it was even possible, for my respect. The whole problem of feminism in the church is so underestimated. It truly makes me physically sick to see church after church bow to the world and really become the world to the world. Women teaching men or having authority over men is forbidden. That should be it. When Deborah was made a judge it was to the humiliation of the men at the time of the judges where everyone did what was "right in their own eyes". We have a church now where that is more true than ever. How must the heart of God be grieving?! After being a preacher in America for 3 decades. I came home to Australia to find this everywhere. Satan is so clever at what he does. Even the elect believe a lie. We need women teaching children and other women how to be godly and making disciples [as we all have been called to do]. Major on that and the desire to be in a pulpit on an elder will go away because you will realize this is the real need of the hour.
Thanks. Yes in Scandinavia there are almost no one that teaches this. If you're against female leaders, you are likely to be expelled from the church. In my case I was even reported to the police (in Norway) by one of the churches for hate crime after I explained to one of the pastors what the bible teaches. I think this one point might be one of the biggest reasons for the lukewarmness in churches today. Rebelling against God's orders because it doesn't fit the modern feminist worldview, isn't a recipe for revival.
It's fascinating how people get so creative when they try to find support for a specific doctrine.
Nowhere in the New Testament do we see any support for female leaders.
As for Phoebe you mentioned, if you've checked what the word diakonos means, it's literally means servant. That word is mentioned multiple times in the nt, and Paul, Apollos and Timothy are referred to with the same word, as well as the authority in Rom 13:4. That's not the same diakonos as mentioned in 1Tim 3, which isn't a leader anyway. And prostatis means succourer, which is also clear of the context where Paul tells she has been of help to him and many. So as we see there's absolutely no basis in scripture to claim that Phoebe was some sort of pastor or spiritual leader.
I'm not sure why you mention Junia. She was one of the first Christians, and therefore knew the apostles well. How is that supposed to be a leader?
The only real example in the bible of a woman in a leading position, is Deborah who lived under the old covenant. Christians live under the new covenant, and follow what God commands us in the NT. In the old covenant, men were allowed multiple wives, divorce etc. And there was no law prohibiting a woman from leadership then. However even then we only have one example in the entire OT, where a woman was a leader. And from the context, we can see that this was an exception, probably as a judgement over the men of Israel, that they were so weak because of their wickedness that a woman had to take command. Barak even refused to go to war without Deborah. Yet in the NT in Heb 11, Barak is mentioned instead of Deborah - for a reason as women aren't supposed to be leaders.
In any case, one can't take an exception from the OT, where there was no law prohibiting female leadership, and overrule what the NT clearly teaches.
The bible can't be more clear:
1Tim 2:12: "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."
Correct. The one thing women never do in the Bible is act as priests, that is, offer sacrifice in behalf of the people. So what we should expect from the true church is that they would have female theologians, mystics, and occasionally political/secular leaders (queens, presidents, etc), but no female priests. That narrows things doing quite handily 😉
The Bible itself includes several examples of women in positions of spiritual authority:
Deborah was a judge and prophet (Judges 4–5), leading Israel both spiritually and militarily.
Priscilla, alongside her husband Aquila, taught Apollos, a learned man (Acts 18:26).
Phoebe is called a deacon (διάκονον) and prostatis (benefactor or leader) in Romans 16:1–2.
Junia is named among the apostles in Romans 16:7. These aren’t isolated anomalies but part of a broader pattern showing that God uses women in leadership throughout redemptive history.
As a woman and a follower of Christ, I'll explain my own personal conviction of this topic. I have not even looked into/researched/formed an opinion about woman pastors and here's the reason why.
My number one mission in life is to further the kingdom of God and to draw people closer to Him. This topic has caused a lot of controversies in churches. Romans 14 says that if something causes someone else to stumble, then do NOT do it. Romans 14:21 "It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble." Romans 14:15 "For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. By what you eat, do not destroy the one for whom Christ died."
I'd rather have a man preach the Word of God than a woman if it means that more people will have listening ears. Because it is not a matter of who is preaching, but a matter of how to reach more people with the power of the Gospel. This is why for myself, the Holy Spirit has given me the conviction that if it were ever to come down to it, I'd rather step down from a ministry if it means that more people would listen to a man even if it's exactly the same message. It's not about the mouth piece, it's about GOD.
As Christians, we really need to do a better job of considering the impact our actions have on others.
Romans 14:17-19 "For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding."
One other thing I want to say about this topic is that for many women, they may feel lesser than when this topic is brought up. I want to encourage other women who might be stumbling on this comment to NOT be discouraged. In God's kingdom, we are all EQUAL. God will reveal how much He loves you. Pray that He will overwhelm you with His goodness. He is supernatural. Pray that you can see Him working in and all around you. Then you will realize that no matter where you are called, in the kingdom of God, it is a HUGE honor, and God sees all of it!
According to the bible, Joyce is committing a sin equal to witchcraft when she teaches. I would stay far away from anyone that is living in such a sin, even more when they use the gospel to their own financial gains like the mega church false prophets do.
Paul, I AGAPE LOVE you as a brother in JESUS. I understand your views; & parts of the WORD that has been taught since the Church formation.
Have you ever considered the Brave, Courageous, women, who Risked Death, in both Old & New Covenants ?
Debra, from the Old Covenant, as well as Lydia & Phoebe (with Paul's approval) in the New Covenant are prime examples of leadership; both in Jewish & Christian Biblical truths leading their flocks. And there are many more; including those who were ex-prostitutes as Rahab in the Old & Mary Madeleine in the New.
The call for Leadership is demanding & intense. Not all can do so; including most males. Yet, we can not discount the leadership roles of women in the past both Old & New; & today, as well as the future before JESUS returns.
Nevertheless, it behooves those elders, whomever they may be, to seriously validate any & all people chosen to lead in the ministry of JESUS. Their failures have affected & infected the Church. JESUS called all of us to use discernment, AGAPE LOVE others, including those who persecute us. Yet, we need to speak gently & softly to correct those in error; and discuss what the WORD truly says.
I am praying for you & your mom daily; & hope you consider & pray on this with more reading of the WORD.
I have listed, in my Substack, where in the WORD one can find out about these Women who demonstrated Bravery, Courage, & Risked Death for ELOHIM.
Sincerely,
John Christian
John Christian
Hi John.
Women serving God and laying down their life for Him doesn't equal leadership.
Everyone has a call to preach the Gospel. Everyone must be prepared to give their lives for Jesus. That's part of being a Christian, no matter if you're a man or woman, old or young.
However the bible clearly prohibits women from leadership in the NT.
And there are no examples of female leadership in the NT.
Phoebe was a servant and succourer (not a leader), and I'm not sure how you can conclude that Lydia and Mary (and Rahab) were spiritual leaders, because that's clearly not mentioned in the bible.
The only example in the Bible of female leadership, is Deborah who lived under the old covenant. Christians live under the new covenant, and follow what God commands us in the NT. In the old covenant, men were allowed multiple wives, divorce etc. And there was no law prohibiting a woman from leadership then. However even then we only have one example in the entire OT, where a woman was a leader. And from the context, we can see that this was an exception, probably as a judgement over the men of Israel, that they were so weak because of their wickedness that a woman had to take command. Barak even refused to go to war without Deborah. Yet in the NT in Heb 11, Barak is mentioned instead of Deborah - for a reason as women aren't supposed to be leaders.
So we cannot use an exception in the old testament to justify ignoring what the bible very clearly teaches in 1Tim 2:12
1Tim 2:12: "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to
Lydia is not presented in Acts as a prime example of leadership, leading her flock in Christian biblical truth.
Neither is Phebe presented as a leader of her flock. It says of her that she had been a succourer, a helper of many.
There are many valuable ways of helping people in the church that do not involve teaching and authority.
Dorcas in the book of Acts was praised for all of the many garments she had made - a valuable and necessary ministry, when you could not run down to K-Mart and buy a shirt made in China.
Phebe may have done great work with orphans or the sick or the poor, or providing food and lodging for travelling saints.
About Deborah, the same chapter of Judges that shows Barak's victory over the Canaanites also shows Jael assassinating Sisera while he slept in her tent. Jael is praised for that, yet New Testament Christians would not use that as justification for killing the enemies of Christ.
As for other women in the Bible who were brave and risked death for God, nowhere do we read that they represented modern doctrines of role reversal and unisex, or that they thought they were the same as men.
Sarah is praised in Hebrews for her faith in God which gave her strength to conceive seed.
Barak is mentioned in Hebrews 11:32 but Deborah is not. That cannot have been an accidental oversight. It means we are not to glorify Deborah too much. And Barak was not under her command but set the terms on which he would cooperate with her (Judges 4:8).
Rahab, also in Hebrews 11, concealed some spies, because she had faith to know of Israel's coming victory.
Other women "received their dead raised to life again" - this shows great faith in God, not teaching authority.
We read in Exodus 15:20 that the prophetess Miriam led the women in praising God's destruction of the Egyptians.
Very well written. 👍
I love this! I think the most we can learn about how God uses women is how He shows us with all the beautiful stories of their courage and bravery in His Word!
John, this is a good article on why appealing to the example of Deborah hurts rather than helps your argument.
https://testing521.com/2016/05/25/why-deborah-the-judge-would-not-support-women-in-church-leadership/
Peter that is the most accurate portrayal of the bible yet!
Wow! I thought Scandinavia was all but lost on this! Paul, that was so good to read because you just quoted the Word of God that stands forever. Mt 24:34, "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away." We have a problem with people trying to soften the literal teachings of the Bible and making the metaphorical--literal. This is the way Satan has it. Feminism in the world and the church has destroyed both! We are removed from God's blessing and unity because of this. No man wants to sit under a female boss or a female preacher. It feels unnatural; but most of all it is rebellion to God. Just as Eve was taken from under her headship of the man, so has the church been taken from under the headship of Christ and His Word. Wow! Paul you went up even further, if it was even possible, for my respect. The whole problem of feminism in the church is so underestimated. It truly makes me physically sick to see church after church bow to the world and really become the world to the world. Women teaching men or having authority over men is forbidden. That should be it. When Deborah was made a judge it was to the humiliation of the men at the time of the judges where everyone did what was "right in their own eyes". We have a church now where that is more true than ever. How must the heart of God be grieving?! After being a preacher in America for 3 decades. I came home to Australia to find this everywhere. Satan is so clever at what he does. Even the elect believe a lie. We need women teaching children and other women how to be godly and making disciples [as we all have been called to do]. Major on that and the desire to be in a pulpit on an elder will go away because you will realize this is the real need of the hour.
Thanks. Yes in Scandinavia there are almost no one that teaches this. If you're against female leaders, you are likely to be expelled from the church. In my case I was even reported to the police (in Norway) by one of the churches for hate crime after I explained to one of the pastors what the bible teaches. I think this one point might be one of the biggest reasons for the lukewarmness in churches today. Rebelling against God's orders because it doesn't fit the modern feminist worldview, isn't a recipe for revival.
🔥 WORD 🔥
Only after it could be resolved -
that Mother Eve did not transgress against what God had CLEARLY commanded, can a woman become eligible to attain Leadership roles. PERIOD!
The admonition is clear in the plain reading, no Theology Degree, nor understanding of foreign languages required.
🔸️1 Timothy 2:11-14 KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
🔸️Romans 13:1-2 KJV
1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
~ Wife and Mother, in that Order
The Bible itself includes several examples of women in positions of spiritual authority:
Deborah was a judge and prophet (Judges 4–5), leading Israel both spiritually and militarily.
Priscilla, alongside her husband Aquila, taught Apollos, a learned man (Acts 18:26).
Phoebe is called a deacon (διάκονον) and prostatis (benefactor or leader) in Romans 16:1–2.
Junia is named among the apostles in Romans 16:7.
These aren’t isolated anomalies but part of a broader pattern showing that God uses women in leadership throughout redemptive history.
It's fascinating how people get so creative when they try to find support for a specific doctrine.
Nowhere in the New Testament do we see any support for female leaders.
As for Phoebe you mentioned, if you've checked what the word diakonos means, it's literally means servant. That word is mentioned multiple times in the nt, and Paul, Apollos and Timothy are referred to with the same word, as well as the authority in Rom 13:4. That's not the same diakonos as mentioned in 1Tim 3, which isn't a leader anyway. And prostatis means succourer, which is also clear of the context where Paul tells she has been of help to him and many. So as we see there's absolutely no basis in scripture to claim that Phoebe was some sort of pastor or spiritual leader.
I'm not sure why you mention Junia. She was one of the first Christians, and therefore knew the apostles well. How is that supposed to be a leader?
The only real example in the bible of a woman in a leading position, is Deborah who lived under the old covenant. Christians live under the new covenant, and follow what God commands us in the NT. In the old covenant, men were allowed multiple wives, divorce etc. And there was no law prohibiting a woman from leadership then. However even then we only have one example in the entire OT, where a woman was a leader. And from the context, we can see that this was an exception, probably as a judgement over the men of Israel, that they were so weak because of their wickedness that a woman had to take command. Barak even refused to go to war without Deborah. Yet in the NT in Heb 11, Barak is mentioned instead of Deborah - for a reason as women aren't supposed to be leaders.
In any case, one can't take an exception from the OT, where there was no law prohibiting female leadership, and overrule what the NT clearly teaches.
The bible can't be more clear:
1Tim 2:12: "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."
Correct. The one thing women never do in the Bible is act as priests, that is, offer sacrifice in behalf of the people. So what we should expect from the true church is that they would have female theologians, mystics, and occasionally political/secular leaders (queens, presidents, etc), but no female priests. That narrows things doing quite handily 😉
Interesting heresy you preach here.
Conflating the words of the Apostle Paul with the Word of God does justice to neither.
The qualifications for being a good pastor are all between the ears. Worrying about what's between the legs is foolishness.
You will, of course, condemn what I am saying, but your condemnation does not alter the truth. Hopefully one day you will recognize the truth.
Great comment, Peter. I agree with you, it’s fleshly commentary to those who worship in SPIRIT and TRUTH. Bless you.
The Bible itself includes several examples of women in positions of spiritual authority:
Deborah was a judge and prophet (Judges 4–5), leading Israel both spiritually and militarily.
Priscilla, alongside her husband Aquila, taught Apollos, a learned man (Acts 18:26).
Phoebe is called a deacon (διάκονον) and prostatis (benefactor or leader) in Romans 16:1–2.
Junia is named among the apostles in Romans 16:7. These aren’t isolated anomalies but part of a broader pattern showing that God uses women in leadership throughout redemptive history.
As a woman and a follower of Christ, I'll explain my own personal conviction of this topic. I have not even looked into/researched/formed an opinion about woman pastors and here's the reason why.
My number one mission in life is to further the kingdom of God and to draw people closer to Him. This topic has caused a lot of controversies in churches. Romans 14 says that if something causes someone else to stumble, then do NOT do it. Romans 14:21 "It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble." Romans 14:15 "For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. By what you eat, do not destroy the one for whom Christ died."
I'd rather have a man preach the Word of God than a woman if it means that more people will have listening ears. Because it is not a matter of who is preaching, but a matter of how to reach more people with the power of the Gospel. This is why for myself, the Holy Spirit has given me the conviction that if it were ever to come down to it, I'd rather step down from a ministry if it means that more people would listen to a man even if it's exactly the same message. It's not about the mouth piece, it's about GOD.
As Christians, we really need to do a better job of considering the impact our actions have on others.
Romans 14:17-19 "For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding."
One other thing I want to say about this topic is that for many women, they may feel lesser than when this topic is brought up. I want to encourage other women who might be stumbling on this comment to NOT be discouraged. In God's kingdom, we are all EQUAL. God will reveal how much He loves you. Pray that He will overwhelm you with His goodness. He is supernatural. Pray that you can see Him working in and all around you. Then you will realize that no matter where you are called, in the kingdom of God, it is a HUGE honor, and God sees all of it!
Well said🙏
According to the bible, Joyce is committing a sin equal to witchcraft when she teaches. I would stay far away from anyone that is living in such a sin, even more when they use the gospel to their own financial gains like the mega church false prophets do.